Any of you able to make it all the way through it? I watched about 30 minutes or so before Tug's head nearly exploded so we changed it. I wonder though, for those who made it through, did Obama ever call McCain anything other than John (aside from the time he called him Tom, or the time he called him Jim but covered it by then saying John again as if he was first addressing the moderator)? McCain referred to him as Senator Obama, Obama kept saying John. Barack, did your mom not teach you any manners? Show some sort of respect to your peer, to a man who served this great country you want to change, ruin, lead, at the very least show some respect to your elder (you know the one you think is facing imminent death, placing Palin one struggling heartbeat away from the Presidency).
Friday, September 26, 2008
The Debate
No class I say.
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10 people are laughing with me:
yes - paul forced me to! LOL -
I noticed the use of 'John' and also, not smart how he said "you're right, John"... "John's right in saying..." I think *they* said that he said Sen. McCain [aka, John] was right like, 8 times!?
that's not too bright in a debate, no matter who you are!
we missed the whole thing. i would have liked watching that.
According to CBS News / Knowledge Networks' poll of undecided voters:
40% of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought BO was the winner.
22% thought JM won. 38% saw it as a draw.
68% of these voters think BO would make the right decision
about the economy. 41% think JM would.
49% of these voters think BO would make the right decisions about Iraq.
55% think JM would.
I only caught maybe the last half hour - preschool fun - but I really tried to watch from a neutral stance - you know where I actually stand. I thought both men made good points, were thoughtful and for the most part, knowledgable. I thought Obama *did* sound
'presidential' which has been a criticism of him. Not to take away from McCain in that area...just sayin'. I also thought that Obama saying "I agree with Sen. McCain," *was* a way of showing respect. As for calling him John, I think that's more of a generational thing than a disrespect thing. We are more informal as a whole now than we were even a generation ago.
By most accounts, both men do respect each other.
I guess I'd call it a draw - with maybe a slight lead for my guy :)
guess who :)
sorry lisa, i am your generation. i am actually younger than you remember. i thought it rude. whether informal or not, it isn't showing respect especially on a national stage. i would have my kids call you ms. lisa...i think he should call him mr. mccain or senator mccain or at least mr. john
i am not talking about 'winners'. i am not talking about what was even debated. i am talking about simple manners and it bugged me just as it would had mccain done it.
and what does sounding presidential mean? he sure stuttered a lot.
i could give a crap about polls...they are all rigged in my opinion. except for maybe the last 1-2 days where they want validity so actually try to get it right then.
r
I thought the debate was great, although I was a little disappointed in how McCain reverted to repeating the same taglines one too many times. I did think he missed a few opportunities to make good substantive points in favor of saying things like "the veterans know I love them and will protect them." He filled too many responses with canned propaganda rather than actually giving a thoughtful answer. Very politician-like, but still credible on most substantive points he did discuss. I did think he was really good on foreign policy issues and really highlighted well his foreign affairs experience (he best highlighted the experience differential when he talked about specific countries). I also appreciated his attempts to joke, and Obama definitely seemed humorless. McCain's no Reagan, though, and I'm afraid after watching this debate that McCain just hasn't done enough to convince all the undecided/swing voters who will determine the outcome that they should vote for him. I'm also a little concerned that he did come off as a flustered grandpa (repeating his points with frustration and interrupting ineffectively when he got frustrated with what Obama was saying). I think too many people are charmed by Obama's intelligence and message of "hope" and "change" (and he's been very smart during the last few years in hiding just HOW liberal/socialistic he is, although the media sure help him in this regard). I thought McCain did well to point out how liberal Obama is for those people who are not part of the diehard Democrat base and might yet distrust Obama's socialistic tendencies and might actually understand that Obama's talk about "change" and "taking care" of the "folks" struggling has to be paid for by income redistribution and punishment of "evil" corporations through oppressive taxation, which will actually take more jobs from more people. On this point, though, I was disappointed by McCain's limited discussion of the bailout and the several liberal-like references to "greed" without any substantive discussion of the real problems underlying the financial mess.
Not completely on point, but here's an interesting article about Obama's ties to the Weathermen, which also highlights what I believe are his true radical political views (that he's been smart enough to hide through his use of words like "hope" and "change"): http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122212856075765367.html
2 things,
First, Obama's use of the informal name John was his attempt to try to look like he was on equal footing with McCain. That however did not come off that way when McCain would only refer to him as senator Obama. If he succeeded on getting McCain to refer back to him as Barrack, it would have gone a long way. McCain didn't and made Obama look like a younger kid wanting to be included with the big boys. To the diehard Dem's this won't matter, to the blue collar undecided, this will hit home because it will be familiar to their existing Boss/employee relationship and the position of hierarchy that is understood. McCain new this and used it to his advantage.
Second,
Obama constant referral to McCain as being right was not good for Obama and did not make him look respectful. Obama needs to set himself apart from McCain as an agent of change. In this environment you never agree with your candidate. Speak your position, even if it overlaps with you opponents. It will make you look like you came at the conclusion from a different consensus. Obama failing to do this shows that he is trying to play on equal terms with McCain instead of proving he has the confidence to know he is on equal terms. McCain speaking of Obama only in a minimizing role and calling his policies dangerous does not let Obama make that jump to equal. Die hard Dem's won’t like this and call it unfair, but the world is unfair, and I don’t want someone facing off Putin or Ahmadinejad who feels he needs to try to prove equal footing. That is just plain scary.
Saying all the rights things only proves your party line, saying them with confidence and the experience to prove follow through make a larger statement. In this McCain clearly took control last night.
Lisa,
The poll of undecided is a little suspicious especially in the light of all the polls given out over the last few elections. The pollsters have been constantly wrong, not slightly, but monumentally wrong. It is inherent in their polling process. They either look for or are only able to get responses from a select type of mentality. So stating the poll numbers only really means people who were pre-dispositioned to vote for Obama polled that way. Not a compelling case.
erin-i have heard about the association with Ayers, thanks for the article. boy, makes you wonder why he is so insistent on early education huh! get em in young while they still dont have much of a brain. kennedy was right when he (accidently) called obama osama.
i dont get it. i honestly dont understand how so many people are being bamboozled by this absolute radical. perhaps he is hitler reincarnated...not saying he is going to be sending people to the gas chamber (though his own racism shows when he says his grandma is a typical white woman...and by voting against the born-alive protection act he is in a sense going back to the chamber) but by how he has so many people absolutely brain washed. they arent looking at the true man, they are starry eyed from listening to him speak. the best con-artists are great speakers.
pld-i agree, saying 'i agree with john' isnt showing respect, it is showing that mccain is right.
r
4th Quarter Buckeyes 34 Min 10
Now thats the Buckeyes I know and love
"perhaps he is hitler reincarnated"
Did you see this post:
http://unam-ecclesiam.blogspot.com/2008/09/obamas-views-on-life-mirror-another.html
Clinton did this stuff too - calling President Bush Mr. Bush instead of Mr. President. I am shocked to find out that so many people actually thought Obama won the debate! What debate were they watching???!
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